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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Morku on Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:33 pm

Hi,

I have tried two madVR "Supportthreads" to get just a hint of root error what I might can check, but it seems no one has an opinion. It's probably unrelated to madVR anyway. If I google, it feels like posts are about 10 years old and setting up HTPCs got unpopular these days.

A flawless movie experience is so important to me, I am really looking for help and you are my last hope (as many times).

-------------- short story --------------

After changing my playback system from AMD RX Vega M GH graphics HDMI Output to NVIDIA GTX 980Ti HDMI Output, I am having frame drops for 23.976fps content every 12.3x minutes in 23Hz mode. See: https://i.imgur.com/wYyny2E.png
But if the movie is 24fps content and so TV is in 24Hz mode, 'frame drops are expected for like 10 hours, sometimes days' = all is fine.

With AMD, I don't had the issue and I had no frame drops/repeat in any movie content: 23.976, 24, 25, 29.970, 30 etc.
The TV (KDL-32EX725) is the same, the videos are the same, the player and configuration are the same. Only the system with GPU Output changed.

Question: Is there any way to adjust the NVIDIA Hz Ouput to synchronize better with my TV, to have at least no frame drop/repeat after 4-5 hours?
If not, is there an option like "I don't give a f* about synchronize video/audio with TV and shift a little over while, just display 1 frame at 1 Hz"? Any modern way of Reclock?

-------------- long story --------------

You may remember, I had some trouble with AMD (drivers?): https://codecs.forumotion.net/t3504-frame-drops-when-navigation-bar-is-displayed-or-subtitles-in-netflix-i-need-an-opinion-of-an-expert-here

So after Intel accepted the issue, but refused to have a look and create a bugreport, the NUC is gone. It was connected through HDMI with my TV (KDL-32EX725).
So now I connected my TV as secondary 'monitor' to my main PC (GTX 980Ti).

When set up K-Lite and MPC-HC I always enable ffdshow audio for AAC audio to enable AC3 encoding for S/PDIF.
I insert all possible frame rates into displaymodes madVR, like 1080p23.
So when I start a movie with 23.976fps, I get a frame repeat every 12.3x minutes: https://i.imgur.com/wYyny2E.png

Seems like, the refresh rate is faster on my TV with NVIDIA then AMD for whyever reason.

So I followed this steps: http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html
And ended at this result: https://i.imgur.com/Cq5BLnn.png
When I chose "optimized pixel clock #1", I only get a "The GPU driver rejected mode, for unknown reasons" error Sad

To exclude influence from my first monitor, I disconnected it. The issue is the same.
I have also tried MPC Video Renderer, but noticed some frame repeats, too. So it is unrelated to madVR.

I also tried a fresh K-Lite install with default settings and LAV audio decoder. The issue is the same.

So I think it all comes down to a different Hz speed with NVIDIA GPU.

Is there anything known? Anything I can do and test? Maybe a bug? Do other NVIDIA user have the same experience? (I doubt, I can't find anything.) I feel helples.

----------------------------------------

I am using k-lite since it was a 0.x Beta version and you helped my a lot in past. So I am sorry to annoy again. But is there any way to send you a donation for your work? Feel free to PM me.

Thank you very much.

Morku

Posts : 27
Join date : 2012-06-05

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty Re: repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:37 pm

Remove your current driver and displays with "Display Driver Uninstaller" (DDU). Then do a fresh install of the NVIDIA driver.

Solution is indeed to create an optimized custom refresh rate. Or alternatively use "smooth motion" option in madvr.

You can calculate the refreshrate parameters with madvr. But it is recommended to use this tool to create the refreshrate:
https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty Re: repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Morku on Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:06 pm

I am still without luck Sad

I did...:

1. Disconnect first monitor (just in case...)
2. run in safe mode, uninstalled NVIDIA driver with current DDU
3. also removed all monitors from device-manager (just in case...)
4. checked with Driver Store Explorer if all leftovers gone
5. installed NVIDIA 456.71 DCH (prepared with NVSlimmer before) with hook "fresh installation"
6. Also did a fresh K-Lite 15.7.5 installation (just in case...) and updated to 15.7.7
7. set displaymode 1080p23 in madVR and started a 23.976fps movie

(OS is W10 2004 x64 Build 19041.572 btw.)

Now after waiting a while, the frame repeat got "worse" and is now at 12.12 minutes.

So i tried to play around with cru. The first post ist rater a option explanation, than a tutorial.
Detailed resolutions, Standard resoltuons, porch, back porch, pixel clock, Timings: standard, native, reduced. To be honest I don't understand this all.
All I want is, that movie and TV refresh rate are same speed. To adjust the movie playback speed, or to adjust the TV refresh rate to correct.

So I tried "Automatic - LCD standard, native, reduced" and inserted Refresh rate 23.976 Hz. This all ended to "No signal" on my TV when I switch to 23Hz.
I tried manual with the value I get from madVR with "no frame drops/repeat expected"... you know the answer.
Even if I got a signal, the result of frame repeats were always the same.

If I look for tutorials for this tool, all I find are gamers who want overclock their monitors... whatever.

---
Back to my basic understandings...

TVs have a 23Hz and 24Hz mode, for,... of course, movies. So the TV is aware of 23,976fps content.

The EDID profile is the refresh rate the GPU gets from the monitor/tv. So since the movies are fixed to 23.976fps, my TV is running 'to fast' that I get a repeated frame after 12 minutes.
Is that right?

BUT, why I had no fps issues with AMD GPU?

When I start 24fps and 25fps movies, they are just running perfectly in 24Hz and 25Hz, I also would expect for 23Hz.
This is the result for 24fps after few minutes: https://i.imgur.com/moRVmsJ.png

So I am still at the point, that I don't have any idea which hardware is causing the issue. Even if I decide to throw money in hardware. Is it the TV? Is it the GPU? I don't know it.
So AMD suck at displaying subtitles for Netflix. NVIDIA suck at 23Hz. How people enjoy movies then? Intel GPU? I feel lost. No

Morku

Posts : 27
Join date : 2012-06-05

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty Re: repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Admin on Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:04 pm

This forum topic has some good information:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty Re: repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Morku on Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:54 pm

I have found that tutorial. But without the example images, I can barely understand where to put all the values.

He say "fill in the minimum blanking and maximum blanking. As a minimum I tend to use the value offered by standard timings, with 2-300 more pixels as a maximum. Being more precise requires knowing the exact specifications of the screen you are using and it's clearly beyond the scope of this guide. What I suggest is what I've been doing, nothing more."

So I entered this way

Added +200 to Maximum horizontal and vertical. Not sure if it is the correct way, because I can't see the picutres in the tutorial.

Pressed okay, restart gpu.
With the result, I switched to Manual and entered the Total pixels from the first line. = https://i.imgur.com/ytRQpPc.png

And I started a movie. After ~40 minutes of playback, the repeated frames are still about ~12.30-12.60 minutes (it's not stable as before).
So I decided to take 12.50 minutes as starting point (=750 seconds)

And now the steps begin I get completly lost.
"1 / (number of seconds before a drop/repeat * movie framerate)". In his example, he is calculating: 1 / (3372.6 * 25.000) = 0.00001186028
Well, if I take his example, my calculator show 1.186028, not with all the zeros.

I would say it's more me: 1/(750*23.976)=5.561116672 (or if I move the dot he does, it is 0.00005561116672 = 55.61116672ppm)

"subtract from the refresh rate in case of frames repeated" that's me, I substract.

23.976 * (1-55.61116672ppm) ---> 23.976 * (1-0.00005561116672) ---> 23.976* 0.9999443888 = 23.97466667

"6) With the compensated refresh rate at hand, we go back to PCC and input it." -> Input where? In Resolution line?
"7) Now it's again to CRU where we input the new values" -> like that? https://i.imgur.com/akttK0P.png

Restarted GPU aaand got a no Signal on my TV.

Since I am really newbie to that topic, do you see the step I did a mistake? This tutorial is really difficult without the example screnshot of the post.

Morku

Posts : 27
Join date : 2012-06-05

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repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA Empty Re: repeated frames after changing from AMD to NVIDIA

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:12 am

Try these values:
http://www.monitortests.com/pixelclock.php?width=1920&height=1080&refresh=23.97466667&decimals=2&minhblank=56&maxhblank=480&hmultiple=8&minvblank=5&maxvblank=120&vmultiple=1&maxpclock=165

I am not an expert either. Join the Doom9 forum and ask help in the topic I linked. People should be able to help you there if you can't get it working.

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