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frame drops when navigation bar is displayed or subtitles in Netflix, I need an opinion of an expert here

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Post by Morku on Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:45 pm

Hi,

don't worry, this is no bug in k-lite or mpc-hc.
But I hope someone can give me a good advise here (because Intel obviously can't).
I use a NUC NUC8i7HVK, it's this Intel/AMD combined system.

So... and with this system and only this system, videos in fullscreen have hickups, when the navigation bar is display or not (only for that moment).
But the same also happen in the official Netflix App for Windows 10 when the GUI gets displayed or subtitles.

Best to see is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0hnzx8sexb3qfc/choppy.mp4?dl=0 I am forcing it by rapidly moving the mouse. You will also notice by the hand movement when Subtitles are displayed.

Interestingly: When SRT subtitles are displayed in MPC-HC, there is no hickup. I wonder why? I know Netflix stores subtitles in some sort of XML.
This also does not happen, when Netflix is in window mode.

So I wonder... what is technically happen, when the navigation bar (or the subtitle in Netflix) gets displayed? Why is the system unable to smooth continuesly playback the video? Or better: a good step to try to avoid this? Maybe an AMD bug? (it's my onliest AMD system)

Of course, system, Windows and drivvers are up to date and any previous version do not fix the issue. Other HDMI cable also were tried and shouldn't be the cause of that.
The performance of the system is decent, games runes fine and also the drive is not to slow. So there shouldn't be any bottleneck for playing a normal 1080p video.

Thank you very much.

Morku

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Post by Admin on Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:33 pm


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Post by Morku on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:52 am

Hi, thank you for the tip.
The result looks like that: https://i.imgur.com/cG3tygu.png
I get the exact same latency on my other system with NVIDIA and without any GUI stuttering.
The tool says, it checks if able tohandle real-time data streams properly. And sure, the system is... as long the video is not in fullscreen, or Overlays are permanent displayed and if the video is in fullscreen no Overlay or Subtitles pops in. Than it's fine...

I have found this threads, too, but I think it must be another issue, because:

- all this comments are one year ago with 1903 and should be fixed in an windows update. So the comments mostly stops 11 month ago.
- they specify the problem exactly to Netflix with Subtitles -> no GUI stuttering, not in fullscreen only, no other videoplayer mentioned
- it seems many NVIDIA users were affected

But here I am with 2004 Build 19041.388 without a solution. It's even in the Windows 10 settings -> Apps -> Video -> start the testvideo, set to fullscreen and as soon the navigation bar disappear and reappear a stuttering is noticable.

To summarize:

- Every video, no matter which software in window mode -> no stuttering when Subtitles and Overlays are displayed
- in fullscreen -> as long some Overlay is displayed (whole time navigation bar, Netflix Videoinfo Ctrl+Shift+Alt+D, permanent subtitle) -> no stuttering
- in fullscreen and only the video stuttering as soon some Overlay as Navigation bar and Subtitles are displayed in and out

Is this some kind of energy optimization from Windows or AMD I could disable?
I mean, it could be workaround if some invisible Overlay would be displayed the whole time or an invisible extra program which forces to keep the desktop in place.

But for MPC-HC I have found one workaround. Setting software compatibility to Windows Vista fix the issue. Using WIndows 7/8 doesn't.
Was there any important change in video full screen handling between Vista <-> 7?

I have created another video to show: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aw669pr82bk2cuk/choppy2.mp4?dl=0
First you can see -> no issue in window mode by smashing Alt Button
I switch into fullscreen -> smashing Alt with a lot of stuttering
changing MPC-HC to Vista compatibility and going into fullscreen -> no stuttering when smash Alt

Unfortunately I can't do the same trick for Netflix, because it is a Microsoft Store App...

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Post by Admin on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:28 pm

For MPC-HC try "Disable fullscreen optimizations" in compatibility settings instead of Vista.

A possible workaround is to open the Task Manager with "always on top" enabled, and then move that beyond the edge of the screen so that it is barely visible.

In AMD settings, make sure Enhanced Sync and FreeSync are disabled.

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Post by Morku on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:47 pm

The "Disable fullscreen optimizations" was the first thing I tested in compatibility mode, without success. It's really only the Vista mode which workaround the issue in compatibility mode. Still curious, what Windows is doing there...

And yes, the task-manager tip works also when the video is in fullscreen. But as soon you start a video, it jumps in the middle of screen -> you have to move it out and you can't do it fully. You will always see a white corner. Not really usuable.

So I need a program, which shows a 1x1 invisible pixel and is "always on top" Very Happy

Also all AMD settings have no effects. I dsiabled all "optimization" modes and also tried enabled, without success. Only Vista helps. I liked Vista. I miss Vista... Is there any downside to run MPC-HC in Vista mode?

I still suspect Windows OS <-> AMD. So I created a thread at AMD and... a AMD RX 580 posted in to have the same issue.

Thank you anyway.

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Post by Admin on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:59 pm

Running in Vista mode means that certain things may not work properly, like hardware accelerated decoding. It is weird that running in Win7/8 mode doesn't have same effect. Maybe test with hardware decoding disabled?

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Post by Morku on Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:10 pm

You mean DXVA2 or D3D11 in LAV? It's disabled.

But I have found out something new. It somehow comes from madVR. I have changed renderer to EVR-CP or MPC Video-Renderer and all is fine. Even with DXVA2 and D3D11 in LAV. When I change back to madVR I can make the video stuttering again.

So there are many settings to test in madVR... from standard configuration I just enabled artifact removal, chroma upscaling NGU, image upscaling NGU and smooth motion. Everything else is standard configuration.
I already tried in General settings to uncheck "use D3D11" or check the option "disable desktop composition". No success.
So I wonder what kind of GPU technology is madVR using (and so must be the Netflix App).

When I set MPC-HC to Vista compatibility, is the madHcCtrl.exe inherited the compatility mode, because it get started by MPC-HC?
Any idea what I could try in madVR?

Thank you very much!

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Post by Admin on Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:37 pm

Yes, compatibility settings also apply to everything that is loaded by MPC-HC.

Those madVR settings are quite heavy. Press Ctrl+J to display the madVR statistics overlay. Look at the rendertime value. If that is too high, then it will start dropping frames.

This madVR setting helps on some systems to eliminate stutter:
"how many video frames shall be presented in advance" -> 3

Also be sure to use the internal subtitle renderer of MPC-HC. Don't use XySubFilter.

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Post by Morku on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:56 am

I think we are on good way to isolate the source of issue.

When I play a video file normally, rendering is ~15.28ms and present ~0.19ms. No rising dropped frames, repated frames, delayed frames. All fine.

And when I start to press Alt over and over: I get max states with rendering 204.40ms and present 68.23ms -> dropped frames, repeated frames and presentation glitches rise up. The effect in linked video.

Admin wrote:
This madVR setting helps on some systems to eliminate stutter:
"how many video frames shall be presented in advance" -> 3

This doesn't make any difference. It's not getting better or worse when I change the value, also tried flush, don't flush settings.

Internal renderer is already set to internal. Subtitles aren't the issue here. There is no stuttering or frame drops with subtitltes. This is only an issue for the Netflix App and browser pages.

Back to the Vista mode observation.
When running MPC-HC and madVR normally, madVR stats says "D3D11 windowed" or in fullscreen "D3D11 fullscreen windowed". When uncheck "use Direct3D 11 for presentation (Windows 7 and newer)", it will be "D3D9 windowed (new path)" or "D3D9 fullscreen windowed (new path)".

In both modes (D3D11, D3D9 (new path)), the system struggle in the fast change between fullscreen windowed and windowed (pressing Alt), unless something for Windows GUI is still in front, like the trick with task-manager.

And now... since the option says Windows 7 and newer, you may already guess it, back to Vista compatibility mode:

When I set MPC-HC to Vista, madVR now reports "D3D9 fullscreen windowed (old path)".

Do you know what is the difference between D3D9 new patch and old path? Or should I ask in madVR thread? (I think madshi is no that present anymore)

So what is the presentation mode in general at all? (and why other renderer obviously not using it, because video is smooth in GUI change?).

And for Netflix App and Windows setting and whole GUI... they may use D3D11? Is that WDDM thing based on?

Is the Windows GUI falling asleep when no element is displayed?
I still think this is a bug in the AMD driver, because on Intel and NVIDIA systems, I don't have the issue. It can't handle the moment to display GUI/Overly elements meanwhile a video is playing.
But how to report AMD and get serious attention...

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Post by Admin on Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:58 pm

If I remember correctly "windowed overlay" option makes it use the "old path". You should also test if the "use separate device" options provide any improvement.

You can ask in madVR thread. He is expected to be back soon with a new build of madVR. He has been very busy working on another project.

I don't know enough of the technical details to say what exactly is poorly optimized in the driver or Windows.

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