Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

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Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by christantoan on Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:16 pm

How to configure MPC-HC to play Hi10P Video and how to check it that it doesn't downscale the video to 8bit?
and how to display 10 video thumbnail?
I use K-Lite Mega Codec Pack 8.0.8

Thanks very much

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by Admin on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:24 am

You don't need to configure anything. Both playback and thumbnailing work already with default settings.

The video will be dithered to 8bit. There is no way around that. Either the decoder or the video renderer will do it. Anybody who says differently is wrong. It also does not matter because the strong point of 10bit lies in the more efficient encoding, not in being 10-bit after decoding. There is currently no good support for 10-bit in renderers, drivers, and hardware.

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by christantoan on Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:35 am

OK thanks for your answers Very Happy

So is the setup guide in http://coalgirls.wakku.to/?page_id=4611 not completely true?
Especially in step 3.1 (in pictures)

Sorry for lot of questions I'm a beginner in this

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by Admin on Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:30 am

The OSD of madVR shows the input, not the output! madVR will internally dither down to 8-bit when it gets 10-bit input. It is not capable of 10-bit output, neither is your hardware.

If you for example use DirectVobSub for subtitles, then madVR will get 8-bit input since DirectVobSub does not yet support P010 colorspace. Then the decoder will dither down to 8-bit.

But whether the decoder does the dithering or madVR makes little difference in quality. Letting madVR do it is preferable for optimal quality, but I doubt most people are able to notice the difference.

I suggest you stop following bad guides and just enjoy watching videos.

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by christantoan on Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:32 am

OK thanks for your answers (again) Very Happy

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by kuro on Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:51 pm

xy-vsfilter stable supports P010
you can try with that if your card D3D9 supported
set MPC-HC > Output > madVR
if anything that doesn't support P010 yet
will prevent P010 from being used
make sure P010 is enabled in LAV Filters or FFDShow
temporary disable other color spaces until you confirm you have P010
you will either able to play in P010 or player will play only audio if P010 unsupported instead of dithering to 8-bit (that way you will know for sure P010 supported or not for you)
do keep in mind that no hardware & monitor yet truly supports 10-bits
you can only try to see if it works for you study

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by christantoan on Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:56 pm

Well the video play just fine (a little bit laggy but it play at least)
I only do this for testing whether I can play Hi10P video or not anyway since as anime watcher some group has decided to move forward to Hi10P especially for reduction in file size.

I only hope I configure it correctly Very Happy

Edit: I see some monitors that support 10bit but the price is extremely high. Definitely not for me. and Windows still not support 10bit without hack anyway.
BTW vsfilter is for rendering subtitle, right? what the difference with internal MPC-HC subtitle renderer?

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by kuro on Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:32 pm

you can try my this tutorial stopped 10-bit lags for me (just configure according to images)
http://codecs.forumotion.net/t427-10-steps-to-improve-hd-hi10p-playback-on-old-single-core-cpu
but to get P010 set Output from EVR to madVR in MPC-HC Options > Playback > Output

>Well the video play just fine (a little bit laggy but it play at least)
by default Color Space output is YV12 or NV12 hence downscaled to 8-bit

>BTW vsfilter is for rendering subtitle, right? what the difference with internal >MPC-HC subtitle renderer?
a lot! of difference
MPC-HC official internal & external vsfilter filter buggy, slow performance
compared to xy-vsfilter http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter/ chk here & you will know
last time i used official vsfilter it crashed my player
unlike xy-vsfilter, official vsfilter doesn't support P010 hence video decoder is prevented from using P010

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by christantoan on Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:34 am

Thanks for explanation. will bookmark this since i haven't got any real 10bit video to test
BTW Merry Christmas if you celebrate it Very Happy

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by Admin on Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:17 am

With the internal subtitle renderer the video and subs are handled separately and merged in the video renderer. So that does not have any influence on the input of madVR.

Buying a monitor that is capable of 10-bit input is a waste of money. Most graphics cards and drivers do not support it. Only expensive professional cards like NVIDIA quadro can handle it.

Also, as I have already explained before, you won't see much quality difference between 10-bit and 8-bit after dithering. The benefit of 10-bit encoding lies mostly in the more efficient encoding. A lower file size can be achieved for the same quality video. It seems counter-intuitive, because you would think it requires more space, but it really works that way. So please stop focusing on keeping things 10-bit. It is just placebo effect. In fact, some monitors do internal processing in just 6-bit, but people don't even notice it because they aren't aware of it.

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by kuro on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:59 pm

its true that 10-bit benefit encoders in reducing their file size for same quality. but that's an encoders profit. what should be decoders gain Question
the reason anyone would want to get P010 color space output is to
avoid color conversion & decrease CPU stress. by default 10-bit video uses YV12 or NV12 which mean color conversion to 8-bit more CPU usage slow decoding speed. Crying or Very sad
i have experienced that some CPU's fails to keep 10-bit video in sync if Frame Drop setting not used pale
Avoiding Color Conversion will save CPU usage since no Color Conversion occurs in P010 hence increased decoding speed. that would be decoders profit. you just need D3D9 supported graphic card

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

Post by Admin on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:24 am

Colorspace conversion from 10-bit to 8-bit does not require much extra CPU usage. It is a simple task.

Most of the extra CPU usage comes from the decoding process itself. Decoding 10-bit H.264 requires about 40% more processing power than 8-bit.

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Re: Hi10P Video (Configure and check)

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