Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:29 pm

I need in ffdshow video filter for some applications, for example 4T2 Content Analyser needs in it to show video. The previous versions of KLCP gave me this possibility, as shown on the screenshots beneath.


Unfortunately I cannot find this possibility in the new KLCP versions if I install its on a pure PC. For example:


This possibility remains if I install a new version with update the old one, where this feature was available, but it isn't available in the case of the zero KLCP installation. Of course I can install ffdshow filter separately, but I'd like to stay with KLCP only. Is there any way to fix it?

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by notcyf on Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:35 pm

Only KLCP Full and Mega has ffdshow. And AFAIK you need to select it during installation or it won't be installed since it's unnecessary for 99% of people because LAV is just better in every way and ffdshow is no longer maintained(last release was in 2014).

Edit: If you scroll down the selection in the installation, there's an option for Audio Playback "ffdshow + LAV (prefer LAV)". If you choose that ffdshow will be installed

Edit 2: If Admin reads this, is there a reason there's no option to "just install ffdshow" without having to set a default for something?


Last edited by notcyf on Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

notcyf

Posts : 46
Join date : 2017-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:38 pm

notcyf wrote:Only KLCP Full and Mega has ffdshow. And AFAIK you need to select it during installation or it won't be installed
Thank you, the choice as you can see in the screenshot below, solved the issue.

since it's unnecessary for 99% of people because LAV is just better in every way and ffdshow is no longer maintained(last release was in 2014).
Nevertheless there is the one percent that still needs in ffdshow. Fortunately you aren't included in it. Smile
If you scroll down the selection in the installation, there's an option for Audio Playback "ffdshow + LAV (prefer LAV)". If you choose that ffdshow will be installed.
I used another choice (see my screenshots).

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by Admin on Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:21 pm

Are you really sure that tool only works with ffdshow? In their documentation I see other video decoders as well. So I expect it to also work with LAV Video decoder. If not, you should report it to the creators of 4T2 Content Analyser.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 3555
Join date : 2011-06-17

View user profile http://codecs.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:19 pm

Admin wrote:Are you really sure that tool only works with ffdshow? In their documentation I see other video decoders as well. So I expect it to also work with LAV Video decoder. If not, you should report it to the creators of 4T2 Content Analyser.
Are you really sure that I didn't do it all already? My question has concerned KLCP, and I've received the worthwhile answer. Now your advice make me to doubt about using of KLCP. Till now I belived that KLCP is the tool that can provide the proper operation of many apps. You almost persuaded me that the things are vice versa.

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by notcyf on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:36 am

vramor wrote:
Admin wrote:Are you really sure that tool only works with ffdshow? In their documentation I see other video decoders as well. So I expect it to also work with LAV Video decoder. If not, you should report it to the creators of 4T2 Content Analyser.
Are you really sure that I didn't do it all already? My question has concerned KLCP, and I've received the worthwhile answer. Now your advice make me to doubt about using of KLCP. Till now I belived that KLCP is the tool that can provide the proper operation of many apps. You almost persuaded me that the things are vice versa.

KLCP is just a compilation of codecs, a custom build of the popular video player MPC-HC and a few other apps created by Codec Guide. This pack exists because it creates an easy way to install a complete pack of codecs and what differs this from other codec packs is that it has built in solutions for many problems, and a very well-thought out installer and configuration tool. There's no reason to bash the creator of this pack. He was just saying that it's a good idea to contact the developer of 4T2 to add support(or fix it) for LAV because ffdshow is no longer maintained and their project page even recommend switching to LAV since it's it's successor in a lot of ways.

When i made my reply i was also thinking that LAV should work fine, since other decoders are also listed.

Edit: Also according to this manual PDF(section 27.3): http://www.4t2.eu/4T2SWManualContent-AnalyserEN2015.pdf 4T2 supports DirectShow filters and should work with LAV just fine, it also reads this about video renderers:


Depending on your system, there may be more CODECs available for selection in the drop-down list.
Should some of the video content not display properly, it is likely that a different Video Renderer
setting solves the problem.Windows has 4 different renderers on board, each with slightly different
interfaces to CODECs .

If it really doesn't work with LAV it means there's either a bug with LAV or with the program's DirectShow implementation(latter more likely), has nothing to do with KLCP.


Last edited by notcyf on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total

notcyf

Posts : 46
Join date : 2017-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:57 am

Dear notcyf,
Thank you for your explanation. I understand you very well as I'm already using KLCP much more than 10 years. I see the pluses in KLCP, but it doesn't mean that there is no minuses in it. Beginnig from version 11.9.6 KLCP was cutted off with Haali splitter. Only the Mega version has got Haali splitter now. However this made inconvenient to use MPC-HC for playing of TS-files with multiple services. It forced me to install VLC as extra player just to work with such types of files. Now they cut off ffdshow as a separate filter and I have to install a standalone one to provide the proper work of 4T2 Content Analyser, simultanuosly saving the possibility to play H.264 video with LAV by MPC-HC. The mentioned manipulations during KLCP installation don't let MPC-HC to use LAV for these files, but ffdshow only. So you can see that KLCP isn't a pack of the independent codecs anymore as earlier and is going on to lose the former flexibility and omnitude.
P.S. 4T2 Content Analyser, at least the rather old certified copy I have, normally shows H.264 video with ffdshow filter only. Please do not believe in AD and manuals, the practice is the truth criteria.


Last edited by vramor on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by notcyf on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:07 am

vramor wrote:Dear notcyf,
Thank you for your explanation. I understand you very well as I'm already using KLCP much more than 10 years. I see the pluses in KLCP, but it doesn't mean that there is no minuses in it. Beginnig from version 11.9.6 KLCP was cutted off with Haali splitter. Only the Mega version has got Haali splitter now. However this made inconvenient to use MPC-HC for playing of TS-files with multiple services. It forced me to install VLC as extra player just to work with such types of files. Now they cut off ffdshow as a separate filter and I have to install a standalone one to provide the proper work of 4T2 Content Analyser, simultanuosly saving the possibility to play H.264 video with LAV by MPC-HC. The mentioned manipulations during KLCP installation don't let MPC-HC to use LAV for these files, but ffdshow only. So you can see that KLCP isn't a pack of the independent codecs anymore as earlier and is going on to lose the former flexibility and omnitude.

Yeah, as stated in an earlier post, i don't get why there's no option to install ffdshow without selecting any format. There's still a reason to install it even if it's not used for any media format for a player, it can still be used by programs that support DirectShow and have manual selection(like your program). I kind of doubt this is intentional and maybe Admin can add a selection box to force install ffdshow without selecting options.

notcyf

Posts : 46
Join date : 2017-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:17 pm

I think you misunderstood. I am not telling you to use a specific decoder. The beauty of KLCP is that you can customize to entirely to your own preferences. I just meant that 4T2 CA should theoretically work with any decoder. If something doesn't work as expected, I would like to understand why because it may be fixable. Hence the suggestion to report this issue to 4T2 developers. I think they would like their software to be compatible with LAV Filters as well (and their current version might already be).

Beginnig from version 11.9.6 KLCP was cutted off with Haali splitter. Only the Mega version has got Haali splitter now. However this made inconvenient to use MPC-HC for playing of TS-files with multiple services.
Why are you using the Full version instead of Mega? If you don't want the VFW codecs from Mega, then you can disable them in the installer with a single mouse click. That is the only major difference between default install settings of Full and Mega. The (Mega) installer also allows you to select Haali as preferred splitter for MPEG-TS, just like in the past. I don't understand what the problem is. I think you have previously been customizing settings after installation, but you can do it directly during installation. The installer by default no longer installs redundant components that most people do not need.

Now they cut off ffdshow as a separate filter and I have to install a standalone one to provide the proper work of 4T2 Content Analyser, simultaneously saving the possibility to play H.264 video with LAV by MPC-HC. The mentioned manipulations during KLCP installation don't let MPC-HC to use LAV for these files, but ffdshow only.
Huh? ffdshow is still included. You already found the option to enable it for H.264. Isn't that exactly what you want?

If you want to use ffdshow in 4T2 and LAV in MPC-HC, then that is easy to do. Select ffdshow during installation to make it the global default for H.264. In MPC-HC settings, go to internal filters and enable H.264. The internal filters are same as LAV.
Or in ffdshow settings, go to "DirectShow control" page. There you can specify exactly which applications are allowed to use it. The rest will then use LAV.

i don't get why there's no option to install ffdshow without selecting any format
You can use the "other video formats" and "other audio formats" options to achieve that.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 3555
Join date : 2011-06-17

View user profile http://codecs.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Admin wrote:I think you misunderstood.
Errare humanum est! Smile
If you want to use ffdshow in 4T2 and LAV in MPC-HC, then that is easy to do. Select ffdshow during installation to make it the global default for H.264. In MPC-HC settings, go to internal filters and enable H.264. The internal filters are same as LAV.
Or in ffdshow settings, go to "DirectShow control" page. There you can specify exactly which applications are allowed to use it. The rest will then use LAV.
I believe that it would be much convenient to assign the proper decoder for each application separetly. To provide this KLCP should simply install all the needed (choosen during installation) decoders without doing its as global defaults. Maybe LAV can be default video decoder for MPC-HC, but not for all applications using file extensions. While KLCP doesn't do so, to install the standalone ffdshow is more simple way to solve all my issues.
P.S. LAV is impossible to replace as to concern HEVC, but as to H.264 ffdshow or Microsoft DTV-DVB Video Decoder is a suitable choice. In any case DVB Viewer receives and decodes H.264 very well without LAV. I daresay even noticeably better than with LAV, especially ffdshow.

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:25 pm

it is not possible to assign different decoders to each application. Each installed DirectShow filter has a merit value (which is a sort of priority value). If you have two decoders for H.264 then the decoder with the highest merit will be tried first. The filter is loaded and a check is performed if it can be used. The decoder may indicate that it can't be used in the current situation. In that case the next highest one gets used. And so on.

If both LAV and ffdshow are installed, then ffdshow will be tried first because it has the highest merit. If the relevant format is disabled in ffdshow settings, then it won't get used. Same if you blacklist the application.

MPC-HC has the ability to override the merits of filters. But most other DirectShow applications are 'dumb' and simply use whatever is default (has highest merit).

I don't understand why you think that standalone ffdshow is simpler. All that you need to do in K-Lite installer to use ffdshow is to select it for the formats that you want to decode with it.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 3555
Join date : 2011-06-17

View user profile http://codecs.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:57 pm

Admin wrote:it is not possible to assign different decoders to each application.
You are wrong. The screenshots below will show why.

I don't understand why you think that standalone ffdshow is simpler. All that you need to do in K-Lite installer to use ffdshow is to select it for the formats that you want to decode with it.
Maybe the forecited svreenshots will help you to understand that in computer practics the things are often going otherwise than anybody can imagine. Smile

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by notcyf on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:00 pm

vramor wrote:
Admin wrote:it is not possible to assign different decoders to each application.
You are wrong. The screenshots below will show why.

I don't understand why you think that standalone ffdshow is simpler. All that you need to do in K-Lite installer to use ffdshow is to select it for the formats that you want to decode with it.
Maybe the forecited svreenshots will help you to understand that in computer practics the things are often going otherwise than anybody can imagine. Smile

Admin wrote:MPC-HC has the ability to override the merits of filters. But most other DirectShow applications are 'dumb' and simply use whatever is default (has highest merit).

This "DVB Viewer" is not one of most. One of most however is for example WMP. ffdshow however, is redundant for most users, so it is not installed by default. If you were to install ffdshow without setting defaults, ffdshow would always be used, even though LAV should be used by most people.

notcyf

Posts : 46
Join date : 2017-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:10 pm

notcyf wrote:This "DVB Viewer" is not one of most.
Of course DVB Viewer is not one of the most, and Behold TV is not one of the most, and 4T2 Content Analyser is not one of the most. You have just written that it is impossible to assign the different decoders to various applications, now you are writing about the most of.
One of most however is for example WMP
Those who use WMP will never be interesting in KLCP, IMHO.
ffdshow however, is redundant for most users, so it is not installed by default.
You still cannot understand that the most important is not FFDSHOW, but the way KLCP to install its decoders. It would be much better if KLCP just installed and registered all the decoders. In this case KLCP would be a tool for everybody but not for most of people. Besides most of the stickler for KLCP believed that KLCP was more than a simple addition to MPC-HC. If you aren't thinking so now then forget all I wrote here. Sad

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by notcyf on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:31 pm

vramor wrote:
notcyf wrote:This "DVB Viewer" is not one of most.
Of course DVB Viewer is not one of the most, and Behold TV is not one of the most, and 4T2 Content Analyser is not one of the most. You have just written that it is impossible to assign the different decoders to various applications, now you are writing about the most of.
One of most however is for example WMP
Those who use WMP will never be interesting in KLCP, IMHO.
ffdshow however, is redundant for most users, so it is not installed by default.
You still cannot understand that the most important is not FFDSHOW, but the way KLCP to install its decoders. It would be much better if KLCP just installed and registered all the decoders. In this case KLCP would be a tool for everybody but not for most of people. Besides most of the stickler for KLCP believed that KLCP was more than a simple addition to MPC-HC. If you aren't thinking so now then forget all I wrote here. Sad

Doing this will cause ffdshow to be used for people that only download the basic package of KLCP(without MPC-HC), without their knowledge causing an old decoder to be used. You mustn't think that every user knows his way around setting up programs like we do, they just click through next next next next without selecting anything, it's what KLCP's biggest usergroup is. You know how to make it so ffdshow is installed now, those are the only people that ever need to use ffdshow. It's utterly pointless and for most software a security issue to install redundant, not-maintained software. The only reason ffdshow is still even included in KLCP is because of people like you, and because certain (very old) tools only work with ffdshow(and do not support DirectShow).

ffdshow is installed for you now, so issue resolved! I still recommend trying to get the developer of 4T2 to fix LAV support though.

notcyf

Posts : 46
Join date : 2017-08-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:28 pm

notcyf wrote:I still recommend trying to get the developer of 4T2 to fix LAV support though.
I'm asking once more: why are you thinking that I didn't do it already? I deliberately use the old version because it is better than the new one. Just the same in the case with KLCP. Razz
P.S. I noticed that you like to give such advices almost on the every occasion. Very Happy

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:03 pm

There are hundreds of DirectShow applications. Most are of the dumb kind that use standard DirectShow behavior. Those DVB apps allow you to select your preferred decoder. There are several advanced players that do that as well. But that doesn't make it a good idea to always install a shitload of redundant stuff. It matters what is best for the majority, not just specific individuals. So by the default it only uses the best filters and doesn't include stuff that is completely unnecessary for the vast majority. You might like ffdshow because it works good for YOUR specific use cases, but I know it has many flaws.

KLCP provides the ability to install exactly what you want. If that isn't easy enough, then you are free to use something else.

Less than 4% is using ffdshow. Not a guess, I have actual statistics. This includes people who use it without valid reason, but only because the name is familiar since they already used it in the past.

About 15% of KLCP users has WMP as preferred player.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 3555
Join date : 2011-06-17

View user profile http://codecs.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:10 pm

Admin wrote:KLCP provides the ability to install exactly what you want. If that isn't easy enough, then you are free to use something else.
So I did! I used KLCP to install and provide MPC-HC with all the necessary decoders and there is no problem with playing all the videos including 4K HEVC. I don't know anything to work better! Besides LAV perfectly works in other installed applications. Many thanks to KLCP's team for it! Smile
But as to my special issue I had have to install ffdshow Video Decoder separetly. There was no necessary thing in earlier KLCP version. That's all.

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:27 pm

Just one change is needed to make it behave same as old version.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 3555
Join date : 2011-06-17

View user profile http://codecs.forumotion.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is ffdshow filter in the new versions of KLCP

Post by vramor on Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 pm

Admin wrote:Just one change is needed to make it behave same as old version.
Thank you! At Last! Smile

vramor

Posts : 137
Join date : 2011-07-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum