New version LAV is worse

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New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:29 am

I updates my KLCP statedly, but I've been disappointed at the last KLCP version 12.1.9. My test 4K video with HEVC is jerking under 12.1.9, slightly but jerking. I think that the reason is in LAV decoder. So I returned to the older version, and the problem disappeared. System Win7 SP1 x64, i7-xxxx, 3 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce 650 Ti 1 Gb, MPC-HC - x64 of course.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Will be fixed in next version.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:52 am

Thank you for the prompt reply and the new KLCP version. Couldn't  you describe the new features of 12.2.0 version comparing for example with 11.9.4 and the advantage of the old ones. Thanks in advance.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:06 am

There are a lot of little changes. For details you would need to read the changes of all individual components. Newer version has the ability to play a few additional formats.

Old versions have no advantages. Generally there are just fixes, improvements, and new features. Problems like in 12.1.9 are just temporary and are quickly fixed.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:19 am

I tried the 12.2.1 KLCP version and couldn't notice jerking anymore. But it seems to me that the current LAV video decoder does not provide enough smoothness for some 4K video files with HEVC. Unfortunately this is a personal feeling only, not result of objective estimation. Nevertheless I leave the 12.2.1 Full version the more's there is Haali splitter there again. Smile Thank you!

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:10 am

Haali splitter is still included with the MEGA version. But Haali does not support HEVC.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:43 am

Admin wrote:Haali splitter is still included with the MEGA version. But Haali does not support HEVC.
There is the way to remain Haali splitter in the FULL KLCP version. You should to install 11.9.0 version first, then perform quick upgrade to 12.1.5, and afterwards update to 12.2.1. So you can have the newest FULL KLCP version with Haali splitter. Of course Haali splitter has no bearing on the video decoding of HEVC. Wink

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by the Doctor on Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:37 pm

I think it would be better to just install the Mega version since it has everything the full does and more. I install it and set everything to LAV and let it install ffdshow if i ever feel the need for it. LAV works with every type of video/audio I've thrown at it since it came out and it works very well with HEVC whether it's 8bit or 10bit. I usually uncheck anything Haali cause never had anything that needed to use it.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:25 pm

the Doctor wrote:I usually uncheck anything Haali cause never had anything that needed to use it.
I choose Haali as Preferred splitter for TS files to play MPTS and see any of services that included in MPTS files.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:03 am

Simply use Mega. The only extra things it installs compared to Full are the VFW codecs. It is easy to just uncheck those.

Haali does have effect on HEVC. Just try playing a .ts file that contains it. If the splitter doesn't recognize the format, then the video decoder doesn't even get used. Luckily, most content that currently uses HEVC is in MKV or MP4 file.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:02 am

Admin wrote:Haali does have effect on HEVC. Just try playing a .ts file that contains it. If the splitter doesn't recognize the format, then the video decoder doesn't even get used. Luckily, most content that currently uses HEVC is in MKV or MP4 file.
My practice shows slightly different results. I have a .TS file with HEVC (see screenhot with mediainfo), associated with MPC-HC which has been set as shown on the two another screenshots. As you can see both splitter and video decoder are choosen correctly when MPC-HC is playing this file.

Nevertheless I'll follow your advice and install MEGA next time.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:32 am

That is just by luck because if LAV Splitter gets used it means Haali failed to parse the file. I have files where it will not fail, but only the audio will play.

But since the CTT allows different splitters for M2TS and TS, you can easily rename your files to use the desired splitter.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:55 am

Admin wrote:But since the CTT allows different splitters for M2TS and TS, you can easily rename your files to use the desired splitter.
Do you mean rename .TS into .M2TS, if the original .TS includes a single service with HEVC? But why, if there is no problem for MPC-HC to choose the proper splitter? Or this is for the case when it wasn't a lucky miss? Smile

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:23 am

For anything that contains HEVC. Then you are sure it always uses the correct splitter.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:30 am

Admin wrote:For anything that contains HEVC. Then you are sure it always uses the correct splitter.
Don't you think that it can be the aim of the further KLCP's upgrade? I mean the choice the proper splitter by MPC-HC despite the extension of playing file.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:17 am

It doesn't work that way. In DirectShow the splitter is selected purely based on extension or a few bytes from the file header. There isn't any knowledge about the contents of the file when the splitter is selected.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:17 am

Admin wrote:It doesn't work that way. In DirectShow the splitter is selected purely based on extension or a few bytes from the file header. There isn't any knowledge about the contents of the file when the splitter is selected.
Does it mean that in my case (.TS file with HEVC and Haali splitter as preferred one for .TS) the few bytes in the header provided the correct splitter choice?

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:59 pm

No. Those few bytes only define the container format (MPEG-TS).

In your case, Haali is actually used first, but fails and returns an error. Then LAV Splitter get used as a second choice. If you try with WMP then it will fail to play because that only tries the preferred splitter. The fact that Haali fails gives you the same end result, but it will not always fail on files that contain HEVC.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:47 pm

The same sad story (HEVC jerking) with KLCP 12.2.6 version. Everything's OK with 12.2.5.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:17 pm

No problems here.

Does it happen with every file? Also try a low resolution one. And check your CPU usage. Maybe your system is just too slow.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:54 pm

Admin wrote:No problems here.
Maybe there is the same problem as for 12.1.9 that has been fixed, and now it appeared again.
Does it happen with every file?
Of course not. Only with such like this one.

Also try a low resolution one. And check your CPU usage. Maybe your system is just too slow.
Maybe. But it is fast enough to provide the smooth playing of the same file with MPC-HC 64-bit of 12.2.5 KLCP version.
Besides, I cannot find the Haali splitter in the 12.2.5 Mega. Where it is? Please help me.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:05 am

No, there is no bug. If it only happens with files like that one, then it is normal. Even the fastest processors available have trouble with 10-bit UltraHD HEVC files. Yours is too slow.

You can select Haali during installation.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:14 am

Admin wrote:No, there is no bug. If it only happens with files like that one, then it is normal. Even the fastest processors available have trouble with 10-bit UltraHD HEVC files. Yours is too slow.
In other words my i7-xxxx@3 GHz is suitable for KLCP 12.2.5 and too slow for 12.2.6. OK. I've got it.
You can select Haali during installation.
Thank you!

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:24 am

Press Ctrl+Shift+Esc and look at the CPU usage. Try the exact same file with 12.2.5.

I did a quick performance benchmark and there is no difference here between 12.2.5 and 12.2.6.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

Post by vramor on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:06 am

Admin wrote:I did a quick performance benchmark and there is no difference here between 12.2.5 and 12.2.6.
I did a quick performance estimation as well (with Windows Task Manager). Here are the results concerning CPU Usage during the playback of my rather heavy HEVC file.

KLCP 12.2.5
Playing in window - 60-80%
Playing in full screen - 50-60%

KLCP 12.2.6
Playing in window - 70-90%
Playing in full screen - 45-60%

I guess that there is one of the possible reasons for insufficiently smooth my file playing: my hardware is too weak or HEVC file is too heawy, or even both. Smile
P.S. But nevertheless there is a slight difference between 12.2.5 and 12.2.6.

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Re: New version LAV is worse

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