Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

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Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by maverik on Wed May 25, 2016 9:13 am

The people that distribute K-Lite Codec updates (and main installer, for that matter) treat their users with utter contempt when it comes to distribution of their downloads.

Why is it absolutely necessary to make any person click click click click click click click click there way to the download? It must be absolutely necessary, because otherwise it would not happen. The mechanics would be seen as completely stupid, making the creators of the process equally stupid. Simple as that.


I have given up ever doing anymore updates. The folks that engineered the latest sequence of hoops for me to jump through have rightly earned the title of MOST STUPID DOWNLOAD PROCESS ON THE INTERNET. EVER.

You fools can f%&k yourselves

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Wed May 25, 2016 5:41 pm

You must be doing something wrong. The update checker opens the download page directly. There it is just ONE click to download the update installer, since the primary download mirror is a direct download. The regular installers will get direct downloads in the near future, so you don't need to go to an external download mirror.

If you are confused by ads, then you should really install an Ad Blocker. That will make your life a whole lot easier on the whole Internet.

What assholes like you don't realize is that it costs a LOT of time and money to provide this software FOR FREE and provide downloads FOR FREE. Running a website and download servers costs significant amounts of money and that is why ads are an unfortunate necessity. The amount of donations received in the past year was barely enough to buy a six-pack of beer, so we don't even ask for them anymore.

I am following your advice. Watching porn right now and really enjoying myself.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by maverik on Thu May 26, 2016 8:28 am

Dear Admin
I did press the button on the dialogue to get the small installer, the update to what was installed. There were a number of options, including the full installer which I thought ridiculous, since I only installed K Lite on this laptop about 2 weeks ago. So the pain of drilling through similar pages of click-bait was fresh in my mind, which is why - when it happened all over again, and I was paying attention to the number of clicks required to get to a download - I decided it would be best to write, because Maybe - Possibly - there is a chance - the guys wanting us to update don't realise they are creating frustrated assholes.

Please take another look at the process you describe with much less pain than I endured, to get to a simple, minor update. I cannot think of any other product that makes the user jump as many hoops, so I figured Maybe - possibly - there is a chance - the guys behind this don't realise they are creating frustrated assholes.

Consider that Maybe - possibly - there is a chance - the guys behind this don't realise they are creating frustrated assholes in themselves, if they are in any way frustrated with the repetitive, verbose, likely unnecessary way I have decided to illustrate my point.

Now, I will return to xhamster myself Smile

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by maverik on Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Dear Admin,
In a nutshell,
If I have taken the time to express that the download process was frustrating, Consider the possibility that It actually was. And further consider any streamlining that might be possible.

Thank You

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Thu May 26, 2016 4:28 pm

Thanks for the more civilized reaction.

The update pack button should take you directly to http://codecguide.com/klcp_update.htm where download mirror 1 leads directly to the file. Not exactly difficult in my opinion.

A link to the complete installer is offered because some people actually prefer using that. The complete installer can also be use simply update the existing installation. All settings are even preserved! Size does not matter for these people. It is the benefit of having an installer that can also be used to re-install if needed or use on other computers.

Downloading the complete installers requires two extra steps. First to choose the desired variant (which not necessarily has to be the same as your current one). Second is download through an external mirror. Direct downloads are coming soon. But given the large amount of downloads, several (expensive) dedicated servers are needed.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by maverik on Fri May 27, 2016 5:08 am

Hi, Thanks for the response
I think my issue was
> click from first dialogue advising an update to
>> http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm
>>> Using download update to get here http://www.codecguide.com/klcp_update.htm
>>>> Mirror 2 to here https://www.download.hr/software-k-lite-codec-pack-update.html
>>>>> Trusted download at the bottom to this similar looking page
https://www.download.hr/software-k-lite-codec-pack-update.html

>>>>>> And finally the download link that works: Download K-Lite Codec Pack Update

Pretty sure there is a way to remove some of this fluff. I hope you do before a good number of otherwise happy customers do what I did, which is to disable the update checker from working.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Fri May 27, 2016 2:52 pm

Well, you have taken three unnecessary steps. Next time, click on the correct button and use the first mirror Wink

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by CodeLurker on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:41 am

I too think K-Lite Codec Pack is really hard to update.  I installed the Mega Pack in 2010; and hadn't updated it until recently.  'Of course,' there was no updating it (like I should have known?).  I went through the Mega installation, using a Custom configuration.  I for the most part, selected ffdshow codecs, instead of the LAV ones.  This is because I can run VST plugins using the WinAmp 2.x plugins (!!!); and there is a VST plugin for that.  I chose to install some codecs, and not others.  I have found ffdshow codecs to be somewhat unstable (an occasional crash or lock on exiting MPC-HC).  I take it that the LAV codecs are more stable, and are the way of the future.  That being said, they probably still don't have anything as attractive as VST plugins, yet; and probably other advanced features.  I think I had reasons for preferring ffdshow codecs sometimes, and sometimes LAV ones.  Thus, I am not very excited about repeating a Custom install of a Mega Pack.  I had previously installed K-Lite_Codec_Pack_1095_Mega.exe.  I then found out I could make the following updates:

K-Lite_Codec_Pack_1100_Mega.exe
K-Lite_Codec_Pack_1128_Mega.exe

When I tried "K-Lite_Codec_Pack_1130_Mega.exe", I was told I needed to uninstall first.  It appears that no updating was possible for version  11.3.0.  I take it that everyone who installed that version or later had to make ALL their Mega choices all over again.  I don't know if when I uninstall, the new installer picks up my old choices or not.

Things that could be better:

  1. While I can get a log with the Codec tool, and it has a checkbox to EXCLUDE K-Lite codecs, it lacks a checkbox to INCLUDE them.  I would hope to check ONLY that one, so I could use the info for another Mega install.  (Note that saving codec configs presumably doesn't help me know WHICH ones I had installed!)
  2. The installer only uninstalls, but does not allow me to customize the installation after it is set up; so I can't find out what I decided.  A setup that allows me to also Modify which ones are installed (similar to M$ Office and QtCreator setups) would be a helpful thing.
  3. If you are going to force us to do a full reinstall from time to time, if it doesn't already, could the installer remember what choices we made even AFTER being uninstalled, for when we install later versions? It might ask a question, as to if we want to keep our configuration files upon uninstalling.
  4. Why is KLCP so BAD at updating???  Why is it that even through version number changes even in the minor version numbers have to be installed to later updates with the same major version number?  Why are updates from previous versions broken so frequently?  Why is it some updates are not even possible (1128 to 1130)?

I realize that this is freeware, that it's one of the best if not the best thing in codecs going,  I realize that the transition from ffdshow to LAV ones is difficult.  I realize it is difficult to maintain the custom setups in the various packs. Still, this Byzantine, antiquated installer and update setup appears to have made it truly impractical to actually use the Custom setup options in the Mega Pack!  It is impossible to see just what K-Lite codecs are installed, as far as I can see, or to just update the ones you previously selected, in many instances!

A humorous story for you.  I started on this because I wanted to slow down a video of a speech of a guy who was talking really fast.  The MPC-HC couldn't do it without changing pitch, so that he was talking super-low pitch.  It was also a long speech I wanted to understand what he was saying in.  I found a changelog at the site that said they had tried a patch to stretch and shrink time without changing pitch.  That was in MPC-HC 1.7.10.  Being stuck at KLCP 1128, I am also stuck at MPC-HC 1.7.9.54!  Thus, I couldn't stretch time, with the speaker speaking at a normal pitch.  I found out that VLC Player has had this feature for some time.  I just decided to use it to listen to the speech at 80% speed.  (The YouTube slowdown increments jump way too far.)

Outstanding question: If I uninstall the KLCP, and do a custom Mega setup again, will it remember what codecs I have installed when I go to install the latest version?  (I realize if there are new ones, it would have to make an assumption to either install them or not install them.)

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Most of your comments are based on an ancient version, and don't really apply to anything recent.

LAV decoders are indeed better. The only reason why ffdshow is included is because some people (< 4%) use its processing functionality. You should know that it is not necessary to use ffdshow as a decoder. If you use MPC-HC, then it is possible to use ffdshow purely as an audio processor, so in combination with the LAV decoder. The only thing that you need to customize in the installer is to select "Process uncompressed audio (PCM)" => "Use ffdshow (only in MPC-HC)".

1130 was the last time that an uninstall was required. All later versions can be used as an update, which preserves all settings. So uninstalling hasn't been required for years. Uninstalling is basically only needed in case there were big changes to the installer (or the contents of the pack). It is entirely normal that you need to redo settings in that case. Certainly since the default settings are generally the "best" for most people, and "old" settings may not be good anymore.

Settings of the individual codecs can be backed up (and restored) with the Codec Tweak Tool.

If you uncheck the checkboxes that exclude things from the log, then those things are not excluded and thus included.

You can adjust settings in the installer by simply running the installer again.

I am not sure what you are really worried about. Uninstall. Get latest version. Select "Advanced" install mode. Make that one change I mentioned to use ffdshow audio processor. Leave everything else as default.
Afterwards just one change is needed in MPC-HC settings to be able to use that pitch control:
mpc-hc options > playback > output > audio renderer > select "Internal Audio Renderer"

And to adjust the increment size for speedup function:
mpc-hc options > playback > speed step

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by CodeLurker on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:28 pm

Thanks for your help.  I don't mean to sound confrontational, but for users who DO choose a custom install, I think it should be pointed out that for those who have to do a complete reinstall, either the installer remembers what was installed after uninstalling the previous version, or the installer really could use to be improved.

Admin wrote:Most of your comments are based on an ancient version, and don't really apply to anything recent.

LAV decoders are indeed better. The only reason why ffdshow is included is because some people (< 4%)  use its processing functionality. You should know that it is not necessary to use ffdshow as a decoder. If you use MPC-HC, then it is possible to use ffdshow purely as an audio processor, so in combination with the LAV decoder. The only thing that you need to customize in the installer is to select "Process uncompressed audio (PCM)" => "Use ffdshow (only in MPC-HC)".

OK, I may be a small percentage, but then, why allow people to customize the install of the mega pack, if using it is impractical, and many of them will be forced to do a reinstall?  It's good to know that it can act just as a processor only just when playing back, e.g. MP2's.

Admin wrote:1130 was the last time that an uninstall was required. All later versions can be used as an update, which preserves all settings. So uninstalling hasn't been required for years. Uninstalling is basically only needed in case there were big changes to the installer (or the contents of the pack). It is entirely normal that you need to redo settings in that case. Certainly since the default settings are generally the "best" for most people, and "old" settings may not be good anymore.

A. That's not a guarantee it won't be required next month.
B. If one hasn't updated for years, it will be necessary.

Again, my point is about those who actually DO use the custom install functionality.  I bet that at least something of the old choices might have been preserved.  However, even a log of KLCP codecs ONLY from the codec tweak tool would certainly be helpful; even if that were not the case.  If only for piece of mind.

Admin wrote:Settings of the individual codecs can be backed up (and restored) with the Codec Tweak Tool.

I take it that has nothing to do with helping me with what codecs were and weren't installed.

Admin wrote:If you uncheck the checkboxes that exclude things from the log, then those things are not excluded and thus included.

That appears to give me a log of TONS of codecs that have nothing to do with KLCP, and will thus require sifting through hundreds of codecs in order to find the ones that are required for a reinstall.

Admin wrote:You can adjust settings in the installer by simply running the installer again.

Good to know.  I still have the question, if I uninstall, will it also remember those old settings in the installer?  That may be helpful, in and of itself.  I can just run the installer, and uninstall MPC-HC from KLCP, and install the latest version separately.

Admin wrote:I am not sure what you are really worried about. Uninstall. Get latest version. Select "Advanced" install mode. Make that one change I mentioned to use ffdshow audio processor. Leave everything else as default.

Afterwards just one change is needed in MPC-HC settings to be able to use that pitch control:
mpc-hc options > playback > output > audio renderer > select "Internal Audio Renderer"

Still doesn't help people who have done a custom mega setup, and are forced to reinstall.  Should we just do away with custom setups?  Why are they allowed?  Again, I do remember I had reasons for preferring some ffdshow decoders, and some LAV ones, and it wasn't so cut-and-dried.  BTW: IMHO, in order to do pitch shifting right, that setting is needed.  Thus, it should probably be on by default; instead of sifting through forums in order to get it to do what you expect.  Still, thanks for the info.

Admin wrote:And to adjust the increment size for speedup function:
mpc-hc options > playback > speed step

I was glad to find that, but not the eerie, deeply shifted voice.

My point is that these easy answers which work for 96%+ users, do little to help those users who are using an entirely legitimate setup option - most of which will probably be forced to do a reinstall at some point.  Either there will always be an upgrade path that remembers one's choices, Custom setups will be abolished (I hope not), or the installer really could use to be improved.

Actually, it seems to me that the best way to find out what you have installed isn't the Codec Tweak Tool at all.  It is that trick you told me about: running the setup again, and choosing not to quick upgrade.  That's probably my best path forward.  For those who are forced to reinstall, and do a custom install, it still seems they'll have to jot down EVERY SETTING.

FWIW: As a temporary measure, ran the installer, didn't choose Quick Upgrade, and unchecked MPC-HC.  The actual files weren't deleted, when they should have been.

Your instructions on how to activate the time stretch without pitch shift worked; but only after restarting MPC-HC. Thx, tho.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Uninstall removes and cleans everything. That is how good uninstallers are supposed to work.
The forced uninstall is only required for versions older than 11.3.0, so version that are more than 2 years old.
Settings from those old versions are not migrated intentionally.
Any newer version can be updated, and all settings and customizations are preserved!

Custom installs are not discouraged at all. In fact, the K-Lite installer is extremely flexible and customizable compared to other software.

The Codec Tweak Tool log includes all third party codecs by default, as that is important information when providing support. So ones that don't belong to either K-Lite or Windows. If you have a lot of third party codecs, then some cleanup might be wise. If you are purely interested in the ones from K-Lite you can use the management section of the CTT. I am not sure what you think you are going to learn from that. You seem to be overthinking things. The default settings already let you play everything. If you don't do any video encoding/editing, then you can safely uncheck the ACM/VFW codecs. Then the only other codec related choices that you need to make are between LAV and ffdshow. And as I have mentioned before, if you want ffdshow functionality, then it is recommended to use its processor filters (and not its decoders). These can also be activated/deactivated easily (without running installer)(through: mpc-hc options > external filters).

You should not install MPC-HC separately. That will only result in more things that you need to configure manually. The standalone version doesn't bring you any benefits.

The internal audio renderer is not enabled by default yet. For a long time it was still in experimental stage. Only recently it has gotten some improvements that make it a candidate for default use. Next version of the pack will have an option in the installer for it. At a later stage that may get enabled by default.

The installer does not remove files. It only adds things, or adjusts settings. For example switching from LAV to ffdshow, or vice versa. There are no immediate plans to change this, as it is a lot of work. Re-install if you want to remove things. But as I have said, separate MPC-HC is not needed.

Changes to renderer settings in MPC-HC require reloading the playing file.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by CodeLurker on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:53 pm

You are still so not getting what I am saying, but relying on canned answers.

Admin wrote:Uninstall removes and cleans everything. That is how good uninstallers are supposed to work.

More than a few uninstallers give you the choice of leaving behind your configuration files for a later reinstall, or uninstalling everything.

Admin wrote:The forced uninstall is only required for versions older than 11.3.0, so version that are more than 2 years old.
Settings from those old versions are not migrated intentionally.

It seems to me, an intention that makes life unnecessarily complicated for those who choose to do a custom install.

Admin wrote:Any newer version can be updated, and all settings and customizations are preserved!

Custom installs are not discouraged at all. In fact, the K-Lite installer is extremely flexible and customizable compared to other software.

Again, at the risk of repeating myself ad naudium: If a person does a custom install, and they wait just long enough between updates for one of the many, all too frequent, IMHO, versions to drop that cannot update from their version, it seems to be a far too complex a task, to discover what their custom install was, write down their choices, and then do a reinstall.  I am not overthinking it.  Anyone who does a custom install will likely face this situation sooner or later!  !  !!  !!!!  Those who don't, are the probable minority who consistently check for updates, and never miss so many as to be forced into a reinstall.

Apart from that, you reassure me that since 11.3.0, there has never been a non-upgradable situation forcing all users to reinstall.  That is encouraging.  I do not see where anybody is ever told that they can update a setup of that version or later, by downloading old versions, and updating them in a long series.  Again, the frequent dropping of updates incompatible with earlier versions means that, if updates since then are anything like the updates I tried with my old version, to update from 11.3.0 to the present version would take A LOT of downloading old versions, to try to see which ones would update, and which ones wouldn't, to get to the present version.  Again, this is a lot harder than it need be.

Admin wrote:The Codec Tweak Tool log includes all third party codecs by default, as that is important information when providing support. So ones that don't belong to either K-Lite or Windows. If you have a lot of third party codecs, then some cleanup might be wise. If you are purely interested in the ones from K-Lite you can use the management section of the CTT.

I don't find any management section of the CTT in 11.2.8, my current version.  Perhaps this is a new development.

Admin wrote:I am not sure what you think you are going to learn from that.  You seem to be overthinking things.

As above, I'm pointing out very real things that make using a custom installation of KLCP difficult to upgrade.

Admin wrote:The default settings already let you play everything. If you don't do any video encoding/editing, then you can safely uncheck the ACM/VFW codecs. Then the only other codec related choices that you need to make are between LAV and ffdshow. And as I have mentioned before, if you want ffdshow functionality, then it is recommended to use its processor filters (and not its decoders). These can also be activated/deactivated easily (without running installer)(through: mpc-hc options > external filters).

I remember that I had some problem with either some LAV codecs and/or hardware acceleration on my system.  You advice here, again, ignores that some people may actually have valid reasons for choosing the codecs they do, and doing a custom install.  From my version, I see no better way of finding out only what K-Lite codecs are installed!!!

Admin wrote:You should not install MPC-HC separately. That will only result in more things that you need to configure manually. The standalone version doesn't bring you any benefits.

It saved me from having to go through the arduous setup process from 11.2.8, to preserve my codec choices, while I explain just how hard it REALLY IS to update a KLCP custom install

Admin wrote:The internal audio renderer is not enabled by default yet. For a long time it was still in experimental stage. Only recently it has gotten some improvements that make it a candidate for default use. Next version of the pack will have an option in the installer for it. At a later stage that may get enabled by default.

I can see that.

Admin wrote:The installer does not remove files. It only adds things, or adjusts settings. For example switching from LAV to ffdshow, or vice versa. There are no immediate plans to change this, as it is a lot of work. Re-install if you want to remove things.

I think the expectation of 99% of the users, is that if you deselect the installation of a file, the file will be removed, as if you had not checked it.  Yet another aspect of the installer that could be better. To a developer, the way the installer is I'm sure makes perfect sense. To a casual user, one does not expect to have to search this forum for hours to get KLCP to upgrade one's custom install, if the installer does not offer a Quick Upgrade.

Admin wrote:Changes to renderer settings in MPC-HC require reloading the playing file.

Now you tell me.

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Re: Why must I test my intelligence and persistence to get a simple stupid update?

Post by Admin on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:51 pm

You are assuming that a forced uninstall will be required again in the future. That is not the case right now. And if there were to be major changes in the (far) future, then migrating old settings might not even be applicable.

Most people that customize the install know exactly what they want, making it trivial to do. You don't remember which changes you made in the past. Fine. But if you don't know what and why you did something, how can you be sure it is better than what is offered by default? Any issues that you were working around in the past have most likely been fixed a long ago already. If not, report it and it will get fixed. Current LAV should actually give you much less problems than ffdshow (which is a dead project for a few years now).

If you had problems with hardware acceleration, then simply don't enable it in the installer. There is a whole page dedicated to HWA in the installer. Plus this is something that can be configured after install as well. So you can easily test at any time if it works or not. Updating your graphics driver may solve the problem itself. I need to know which GPU you have for more specific advice.

The section i was referring to in CTT is called "Codec and Filter Management" and it has been there for years. It shows which codecs/filters are installed and even allows to enable/disable them. It shows for example that "ffdshow video decoder" is installed. It doesn't show you which formats are enabled in ffdshow. I think that is what you are looking for. That can be seen in the settings of ffdshow itself, and those are the settings that you can backup with the CTT.

MPC-HC uses LAV Filters for everything by default. And it also enables hardware acceleration by default. So if it works as desired it is because of the existing settings that were set by K-Lite that it luckily for you did not reset.

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