An interesting minor feature

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An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:02 pm

I noticed that I've got the simple submenu for subtitles like this

when I choosed Enhanced Video Renderer in MPC-HC Options

and I've got enhanced submenu

when I choosed Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

Why?

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:11 am

In the first case an external subtitle renderer (DirectVobSub) is used. In the second case the internal subtitle renderer is used. The options show which video renderers are compatible with the internal subtitle renderer.

DirectVobSub offers similar options, but those must be accessed through that filter itself.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:34 am

I did not install the external DirectVobSub at all so my SystemInfo tool cannot find it.
Spoiler:

DVBViewer Supporttool 1.5.10.0
--------------------------------------------------


-------------------------
MPEG2 Video Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Video Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
LAV Video Decoder V0.63.0.0:   FF800000
Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder V12.0.9200.16426:   005FFFFF

-------------------------
H264 Video Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Video Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
LAV Video Decoder V0.63.0.0:   FF800000
Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder V12.0.9200.16426:   005FFFFF

-------------------------
VC1 Video Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Video Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
LAV Video Decoder V0.63.0.0:   FF800000
WMVideo Decoder DMO V6.1.7601.18221:   00000000

-------------------------
MPEG Audio Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Audio Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
AC3Filter V2.6.0.0:   40000000
MPEG Audio Decoder V6.6.7601.17713:   03680001
LAV Audio Decoder V0.63.0.0:   00800003
Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder V6.1.7140.0:   005FFFFF

-------------------------
AC3 Audio Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Audio Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
AC3Filter V2.6.0.0:   40000000
LAV Audio Decoder V0.63.0.0:   00800003
Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder V6.1.7140.0:   005FFFFF

-------------------------
AAC Audio Decoders:
-------------------------
LAV Audio Decoder V0.63.0.0:   00800003
libfaad2 Wrapper V1.2.0.0:   00600000
Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder V6.1.7140.0:   005FFFFF

-------------------------
MP3 Audio Decoders:
-------------------------
ffdshow Audio Decoder V1.3.4533.0:   FF800001
AC3Filter V2.6.0.0:   40000000
LAV Audio Decoder V0.63.0.0:   00800003
MP3 Decoder DMO V6.1.7600.16385:   00000000


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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:12 am

That tool only lists decoders. If you want a full list then use:
Codec Tweak Tool > Generate Log

To see which filters MPC-HC is using, simply look at Menu > Play > Filters.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:13 am

Admin wrote:That tool only lists decoders. If you want a full list then use:
Codec Tweak Tool > Generate Log

To see which filters MPC-HC is using, simply look at Menu > Play > Filters.
I've followed all your advices and got the next results:



Unfortunately the situation did not become clearer for me Sad

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:58 am

Situation #1:
You are using a renderer (EVR) that is NOT compatible with the internal subtitle renderer. Result: VSFilter (=DirectVobSub) is used for subtitles.

Situation #2:
You are using a renderer (EVR-CP) that is compatible with the internal subtitle renderer. Result: the internal subtitle renderer is used. This shows more options. VSFilter is blocked automatically and therefore not used.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:24 am

Admin wrote:Situation #1:
You are using a renderer (EVR) that is NOT compatible with the internal subtitle renderer. Result: VSFilter (=DirectVobSub) is used for subtitles.
Thank you, it has a ring of truth about it. But I cannot yet understand, why Codec Tweak Tool does not show the presence of VSFilter in its log except KLCP's vsfilter64.dll and MS's mstvcapn.dll.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:09 am

mstvcapn.dll is totally unrelated. That is for TV subtitles in Media Center. MPC-HC does not use it.

I don't understand what you don't understand. Your screenshot clearly shows that VSFilter is used and it is also present in the CTT log.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:06 am

Admin wrote:I don't understand what you don't understand. Your screenshot clearly shows that VSFilter is used and it is also present in the CTT log.
I don't understand what is "the internal subtitle renderer". Internal means built-in? Where? Sorry.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:51 am

Yes, it is built into MPC-HC. It is very similar to VSFilter, and they actually share most of their code (VSFilter is part of MPC-HC project).

VSFilter is a DirectShow filter that is placed in between the video decoder and the video renderer. It renders the subtitles at the resolution of the video and then blends them with the video. The resulting video is then send to the video renderer. There are no special requirement for the video renderer and it works with all DirectShow players. Limitation is that it doesn't support DXVA hardware acceleration.

The internal renderer functions a bit differently and has less limitations. In this case the video renderer gets separate inputs from the video decoder and the subtitle renderer. Those two inputs get blended together inside the video renderer. The video renderer obviously needs to support doing that, so it only works with some of the renderers that you can choose in MPC-HC. It works with DXVA because the video decoder is connected directly to the video renderer. It also allows rendering the subtitles at a different resolution, for example that of your screen. This gives better quality subtitles.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:25 pm

Thank you, you are very kind! And there is one thing I'd like to be explained. Are the EVR and EVR-CP the parts of the Windows, video driver, or they are built into KLCP? Thank you once more.
P.S. I'm often using EVR because it works faster than EVR-CP especially on weak machines.
P.P.S. Your explanations are very interesing and useful. Maybe there are any sources with such sort of information. If so, where can anybody to get it?

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:04 am

Yes, EVR is a standard renderer from Windows. EVR-CP is an internal one of MPC-HC. It uses the standard EVR and adds extra functionality to it. Due to this extra functionality it is a little bit slower, but only noticeable on very old machines.

Same applies to VMR-7/9. The "windowed" version is standard renderer from Windows. The "renderless" version is enhanced internal version of MPC-HC.

There is no place where all this information is available at a single convenient location. Eventually all this knowledge should get documented in the FAQ, but writing documentation is very boring, so it takes a long time.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:57 am

I can't stop thanking you Smile
Nevetheless the only question remained undetermined: why the internal subtitle renderer, builted into MPC-HC, turned out incompatible with the standard renderer from Windows (EVR)?
P.S. As to writing documentation I understand you very well Smile

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:03 am

Because that doesn't provide the functionality needed by the internal subtitle renderer. It is by default just a 'simple' renderer. Applications that need more functionality can create a modified version like MPC-HC did.

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by vramor on Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:13 am

I see it clearer now (c).
MPC-HC with the standard Windows' EVR automatically calls the VSFilter included in KLCP to show the subtitles if any. If the MPC-HC is tuned to use its own EVR, i.e. EVR-CP, there is no need to call VSFilter, as MPC-HC uses the embedded internal subtitle renderer. Is this correct?

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Re: An interesting minor feature

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:53 am

Yes

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Re: An interesting minor feature

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