Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

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Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:13 am

I'am using KLCP a long long time. Now I use KLCP 10.5.6. There is no question or remark. All the functions work very well. What next?

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:27 am

There are always improvements to be made in the codecs. Many are not obvious for the average user. Think of performance enhancements. Better handling of broken files, and so on.

There is also plenty of features specific to the codec pack that can be added or improved. More options for expert users, and less for novice users. Presets for madVR settings, maybe even automatic based on the detected hardware. Nicer options for backing up settings. Options for configuring preferred languages, perhaps even automatic based on country of origin.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:45 am

Thank you! I hope you can sometime enhance LAV Splitter to have the possibility of playing MPTS as Haali Splitter does, and maybe to show the names of stream services. But this is not necessary. I am very happy with the current 10.5.x KLCP. Thank you once more.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:37 am

Meanwhile after many trials I noticed that all the new versions don't pass my stress test of playing .MP4 file with 4K and up to 60 Mbps. There is slightly jerking with this file after I run and closed some apps. The similiar story took place many KLCP versions ago as I can remember. But I forgot in which version it have been fixed. Now the same or very similiar story.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:21 pm

It isn't and wasn't broken. Your system is simply not fast enough to always play such high resolution files smoothly. Your system is close to being barely fast enough, so tiny fluctuations in performance can mean difference between good and bad playback.

A x64 version of MPC-HC may get including in the near future. That should give a little bit better performance. For these kind of files its approximately between 5 and 10% faster. That might just be enough in your situation to make a big difference.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:04 am

It is very possible that you are right, but there is one thing that embarrasses me. On the same PC with the identical set of drivers and apps, 4K file can play smoothly. The only difference is the different set of Windows updates. It demands very hard work to determine the details, so waiting for the 64-bit MPC-HC maybe is the best idea. But I save the both of backups, provided smoothly and jerking playing 4K file, so I will ever try to know the differrence. This is very interesting, isn't it?
P.S. My PC has Quad Core i7-860@3100MHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 Ti video card

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:31 am

Set the refreshrate of your screen to 59Hz. That gives smoother playback than 60Hz.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:33 pm

Admin wrote:Set the refreshrate of your screen to 59Hz. That gives smoother playback than 60Hz.
You are kidding Smile As the matter of fact it seems to me I found out the possible reason of different behaviour MPC-HC. First of all, the Windows updates don't play a role. I've installed all missing updates without any change. The real diiference is that in the case of jerking the GoTView DVB v1.0.0.9 is installed. The very similiar behaviour took place with ABC 4T2 Content-Analyser. You fixed it earlier.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:24 am

I am not kidding Wink

Does anything from GoTView show up in the filters list of MPC-HC during playback? See Play > Filters.

If so, please post a log. Codec Tweak Tool > Generate Log.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:52 am

Admin wrote:Does anything from GoTView show up in the filters list of MPC-HC during playback?  See Play > Filters.
If so, please post a log. Codec Tweak Tool > Generate Log.
All my suppositions about apps influence on MPC-HC have not been confirmed! The main and only reason is Windows itself. I tried two clear installations Win7x64 SP1 Pro from two different sources. There is jerking in one case, and smooth playing in other. I deliberately gave a try on clear machine, no apps at all, KLCP and Windows only.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:05 am

So the problem is solved now?

Did the 'broken' Windows install contain any tweaks? For example forcing HPET on can sometimes have negative performance effects.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:11 am

Admin wrote:So the problem is solved now?
I wouldn't say so, maybe the solution or understanding of it is postponed.
Did the 'broken' Windows install contain any tweaks? For example forcing HPET on can sometimes have negative performance effects.
There is no tweak, absolutely pure Windows, even without updates. I have two backups with installed Windows. Only Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 and drivers. Backups were made right after Windows installation.  One was made in 2013, another right now. I don't remember exactly how I installed Win7 in 2013, i.e. pure Windows 7 then added SP1. Now I use MSDN Win7 with embedded SP1. When I install KLCP on these backups the new provides jerking, the older works smoothly. I accepted it as is so far and use the old installation saving jerking version for the future. It would be useful for understanding of this feature to compare system modules, but I don't know which of them. The point is clear - interaction of Windows, Graphic driver, and MPC-HC. Any idea?

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:15 am

My suggestion would be to focus on the Sound driver and the motherboard chipset drivers.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:24 am

Admin wrote:My suggestion would be to focus on the Sound driver and the motherboard chipset drivers.
They are the same in both cases. Maybe it is better do not focus on this problem at all...

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm

Have installed Windows 8.1.Pro with Update. No jerking with 4K file playing! KLCP - 10.6.0.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:13 pm

Maybe you'll take an interst in the results of my experiences with playing 4K under the various versions of Windows 7. There is nothing on the PC except OS, graphics card driver, and KLCP 10.6.0.
1. OS Version 6.1.7600.16385 (from my first disk with Win7 RTM)- NO jerking
2. OS Version 6.1.7600.17273 (101 important updates were installed) - NO jerking
3. OS Version 6.1.7601.18113 (SP1 was installed) - NO jerking
4. OS Version 6.1.7601.18409 (next 61 important updates were installed) - JERKING!
And that is that Smile
P.S. The 4K file is here

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:34 am

That video plays smoothly on my fully updated Windows 7 x64 system. With software decoding (as hardware acceleration doesn't work on my system with this file).


Last edited by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:40 am

In case you want to do a benchmark:

1) Open GraphStudioNext (32-bit version)
2) View > Performance Test
3) Select file
4) Choose "LAV Video decoder" as decoder.
4) Click on "Build graph"
5) Click on "Start"

My system does 83 FPS.

(64-bit version does 91 FPS, almost 10% better)

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:48 am

I've done a benchmark (1000 thanks for instructions!). Of course my system is much more weak. Only 56 FPS for 32-bit:


and about 60 FPS for 64-bit:


But the question does remain: why 56 FPS is enough for OS Version 6.1.7601.18113 and isn't enough for 6.1.7601.18409?
I understand clearly that it isn't KLCP fault. But it is interesting to know what MS does with their OS. Isn't it? And whether users oughtn't to refuse to update Windows?
P.S. If it isn't too indiscreete a question, what CPU and Video do you use?

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:36 am

The benchmark only measures decoding performance. By default it skips the rendering step (NULL renderer). If I add EVR as video renderer, then performance drops from 83 to 59 FPS. The video needs just 30 FPS for real-time playback, so plenty of margin left in my case.


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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:42 am

Here is a cool tool that you could try:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:16 pm

Thank you for the tool. I've tested my system with it, everything is OK. Meanwhile I've found the reason and got the smooth playing on my system. That is my sad story. I use the application that demands ffdshow video decoder for its functionality. So I set "libavcodec" instead "disable" in the CTT>Configuration>DiredtShowFilter>etc. In the result of this MPC-HC uses ffdshow filter instead of LAV for video decoding. I've set H.264/AVC in "disabled" and got the smooth playing my .MP4 file with hard video.
Now my question is: is it possible to make MPC-HC to use LAV video decoder while the other application uses ffdshow filter simultaneously on my system?

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:35 pm

The question isn't live issue anymore. I installed ffdshow separetely and didn't edit Video Decoders configuration in CTT. All work properly. Thank you Admin! I couldn't solve my problems without your advices.
P.S. Unfortunately the problem resumed! Now MPC-HC uses ffdshow instead of LAV video decoder, despite of installing FFDShow MPEG-4 Video Decoder separately. TCC shows H.264/AVC as enabled in the configuration DirectShow Filters menu. It looks like KLCP and FFDShow shared the same ffdshow configuration. How to make MPC-HC to use LAV in these circumstances - that is the question.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by Admin on Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:45 am

MPC-HC options > Internal Filters > enable H.264
Then it will use LAV Video decoder even when ffdshow is default for other programs. You can access the settings of the internal instance of LAV by clicking on the buttons on that same page. (internal instance does not share settings with normal external instance)

Another method:
ffdshow video decoder configuration > DirectShow control > "only use ffdshow in" > empty this list and only add the desired application

Codecs installed by the pack store settings is the same place as the same codecs installed manually. So you could just use the ffdshow from the pack in the future.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

Post by vramor on Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:33 am

How little we know, how much to discover Smile
It came about! Thanks a lot!
P.S. I couldn't make to work the 2nd method. The 1st is OK.

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Re: Cannot imagine what else will be made with KLCP

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