Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

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Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:30 pm

Hello! Using KLCP I've noticed that Haali Splitter being recommended one for .MKV doesn't show the embedded subtitles and doesn't let to choose the needed one in the .MKV file. Meanwhile LAV Splitter does manage with it very well. Will it trouble me anyway if I don't follow the recommendation?

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Etheroz on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:11 pm

I believe the only reason Haali is still the recommended one is because it supports ordered chapters, while LAV doesn't. Still, there shouldn't be any issues with the Haali splitter when it comes to subtitles, maybe you have "Autoload VSFilter" set to No in the Haali settings page.


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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:47 am

There are no known subtitle selection problems with Haali. So please re-test and if it still occurs, provide some details about the file.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:13 am

I've re-tested the situation. Yes, you are right! There is no problem subtitles selection with Haali. With Haali I tried to find the outer srt subtitles the same way as with LAV, i.e. via Navigate>Subtitle Languages. But in this case I should use Filters>Haali Media Source. Thank you!

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:19 am

Actually, both Haali and LAV show all embedded subs in Navigate > Subtitle Language.

External subtitle files are shown under Play > Subtitles. In the latest version of MPC-HC, all embedded ones are shown there too.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:29 pm

Thank you for your attention. Everything's OK with subtitles in KLCP. I prefer KLCP 9.5.5 because as I could experience it provides the smooth playing the heavy m2ts files even on rather weak old PCs. The latest versions and the older ones don't work so fast.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:54 am

You should always report such problems as soon as you experience them. That makes it a bit easier to diagnose. Although in this particular case it is probably just a lack of performance rather than a bug. A 1 or 2% performance difference in the decoder might mean the difference between smooth and bad playback.

What kind of CPUs are in the relevant PCs?
How high is the CPU usage during playback (with 9.5.5)?

Have you tried 9.7.0? There have been some improvements in LAV Filters that may help give smoother playback on slower systems.

If you would like to do some performance benchmarks, to compare performance of different versions, then GraphStudioNext has some cool features for that.
GraphStudioNext > View > Performance Test

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:32 am

Dear Admin, I informed you about the problems ASAP since I experienced its. But in the case with KLCP 9.5.5 I don't think that there is the bag. I compared the playback m2ts file ripped from the demo BR. I used the rather old PC: MB-P5B-VM, CPU-Core 2 Duo E6400@2133MHz, GPU-NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT. KLCP 9.5.5 gives the smoothest playback. I didn't notice any difference in playback when I used all the versions KLCP from 9.4.0 to 9.7.0 on the other PC: MB-GA-P55A-UD6, CPU-QuadCore i7-860@3366 MHz, GPU-NVIDIA GeForce GT240. OS - Win7x86 in both cases.
Yes, I tried 9.7.0 but I decided to return to 9.5.5 on all my PCs and notebooks. It seems to me that 9.5.5 is not only faster but more stable as well. But rather this is a feeling.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:55 am

It is mostly placebo effect at work. If you don't notice any difference on the new PC, then there is no sane reason at all to use an older version on that PC.

You could try overwriting MPC-HC and LAV Filters from 9.7.0 with the files from 9.5.5. Then we know if the difference is in the player, the splitter/decoder, or settings (if problem remains after replacing).

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:37 am

Admin wrote:It is mostly placebo effect at work. If you don't notice any difference on the new PC, then there is no sane reason at all to use an older version on that PC.
I don't think so because I am rather an experienced user (and even a programmer) and paying attention to the details where the devil usually hides as you know. I have these details already, and they concern with stability.
You could try overwriting MPC-HC and LAV Filters from 9.7.0 with the files from 9.5.5. Then we know if the difference is in the player, the splitter/decoder, or settings (if problem remains after replacing).
I promise you to check this on my weak PC and send you a report.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 am

I've tested 9.7.0 with 9.5.5 files playing back a m2ts file Blu-ray video 1080i on my weak PC. The results are:
1. Pure 9.7.0 installed - sound discontinuously, video not smooth
2. mpc-hc 9.7.0 replaced with mpc-hc 9.5.5 - sound discontinuously, video not smooth (worse than in 1)
3. LAV Audio, LAV Splitter, LAV Video replaced with ones 9.5.5 - mpc-hc doesn't run
4. mpc-hc 9.5.5 replaced back with 9.7.0 - mpc-hc doesn't run
5. Returned to pure 9.5.5 installation - sound OK, video OK
That's all so far.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:30 am

Did you replace all the DLLs from LAV as well? Those can't be mixed. MPC-HC did not run at all, not even an error? Strange.

How high is the CPU usage when playing the m2ts on the old PC?

I don't think so because I am rather an experienced user (and even a programmer) and paying attention to the details where the devil usually hides as you know. I have these details already, and they concern with stability.
If you have any specific problems, I love to hear details about them. The developer of LAV Filters is very quick with fixing problems if he can reproduce them.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:37 am

Admin wrote:Did you replace all the DLLs from LAV as well? Those can't be mixed. MPC-HC did not run at all, not even an error?
Error windows appeared when three .AXs were only replaced and when all the DLLs were replaced as well. CPU usage - 23-35%, 45% in peaks, very seldom.
If you have any specific problems, I love to hear details about them. The developer of LAV Filters is very quick with fixing problems if he can reproduce them.
There is one specific problem with stability when I'm using LAV Video Decoder in DVBViewer Pro to decode MPEG-2 TV service in the TS I receive from my cable TV provider. From time to time the picture freaks with squares. Only if 9.7.0 installed. I observed that rather long time. 9.5.5 works perfectly.
A propos, thank you very much for the solving of compatibility problem KLCP and DVBViewer! If you remember 7.5.0 killed DVBViewer. It was in June 2011.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:52 pm

Do you have any recorded files that show the video corruption issue? If you can upload a sample, it would significantly increase the chance of a fix.

DVB is a major pain in the ass for a decoder. It needs to have a high error resilience because it occasionally gets fed a lot of junk data during channel switches or due to bad reception. Depending on the situation the decoder may drop a frame if it contains errors, or it can try to patch it up as good as it can. So perhaps the older version simply dropped it, which would mean a loss of information, but visually more pleasing. I think the underlying decoder library (libavcodec) has some options to configure the behavior, so maybe a future version of LAV can have some more flexibility in this regard. So a sample file to test with would be awesome.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:44 am

As regards files. I use demo BR m2ts file with bitrate about 25 Mbps, its size - 22 GBytes. I think you can find a similiar one somewhere near you. As a stress test you can use the file with bitrate about 60 Mbps. You can download this one from here:
http://narod.ru/disk/65124232001.d97456de70727f1bf6981a9123846ecb/HD-Club-4K-Chimei-Inn-60MBit.mp4.html
Working with DVB more than 10 years I know all the major and minor pains in the ass because it is my own ass Smile
I tried many Video Decoders for these purposes, and now it's time for LAV.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:37 am

I meant samples that show the DVB video corruption issues.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:45 am

I don't know how to create such samples.
During the playback a heavy file I simply see twitched picture on the monitor and hear discontinous audio. I can estimate the quality of playing visually and aurally only. Try playback my file and you can see and hear the same if your PC is not powerful enough.
During receiving of the stable high quality DVB signal I see squares on the picture time to time. This takes place with LAV Video Decoder from 9.7.0 only. Neither other decoder (CyberLink, DTV-DVB, ArcSoft, LAV 9.5.5, etc.) besides LAV 9.7.0 spoils picture.
The question is if the certain KLCP version provides a better result with a rather weak PC should I use this version on a more powerful PC? Will it guarantee me more stability?

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:25 am

That sample has UltraHD (4K) resolution, so it requires a fast CPU for playback. It plays smoothly here. But max usage for individual cores lies around 80%. So anything slower than a Core i7 will struggle with such videos.

Doesn't DVBViewer have the ability to record to a file? Although the problem might occur only with live playback (DVBViewer source + LAV decoder) and not with file playback (LAV Splitter + decoder).

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by Admin on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:49 am

Can you test these versions to narrow down the time of introduction of the DVB issue:
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/downloads/detail?name=LAVFilters-0.54.exe
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/downloads/detail?name=LAVFilters-0.54.1.exe
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/downloads/detail?name=LAVFilters-0.55.exe

You can just install it on top of the pack for testing.
When uninstalling, do LAV first, then the codec pack.

KLCP 9.5.5 contains 0.54-3-g2aa25b7 (3 revisions newer than 0.54)
KLCP 9.6.0 contains 0.54.1-12-g539d64f (12 revisions newer than 0.54.1)

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:56 am

I'll do my best, but it takes some time.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

Post by vramor on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:07 am

I've tested all the versions of LAV video decoders. I've checked the Haali decoders as well. All the decoders work equally good.

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Re: Which splitter is more suitable for .MKV

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